Act Three

I will kick of the comments by elaborating on two points!

Why Fitz Should Probably Not Exist: Keep in mind I haven't read Ancestor Cell, so I may be basing this on false assumptions, but as I understand it, the Faction Paradox never existed, right? They have been paradoxed out of existence, which is really fitting if you think about it.

Then shouldn't Fitz himself not exist? If the Faction never existed to set up the Remote, where Fitz 2.0 came from, then Kode wouldn't have existed and so he never would have been re-remembered into Fitz. Furthermore, Fitz 1.0 would never have become Father Kreiner so his personal timeline should just suddenly stop around the time he was separated from the Doctor.

So, Fitz 1.0 fell prey to the big ol' paradox and Fitz 2.0 never happened either. At least, that's my understanding; that Fitz is pretty much there but for the grace of ~~God~~the TARDIS. Who is really like his mother, in a weird way. If I'm wrong about this, feel free to correct me!

My Personal Fanwank: I put most of my money on Fitz dying during the Time War. In my head, he made some stupidly brave sacrifice for the Time Lords and they kind of ignored it because he was just a human, meanwhile the Doctor is devastated and angry at himself for not dropping Fitz on a nice, safe planet so he'd live.

But I don't want Fitz to die. He is too awesome to die. Hell, he already died a few times in the EDAs and it didn't stick then! Why should it now?

Related to the whole Fitz Shouldn't Exist thing, I think its a bit like Captain Jack, who had his death-point removed from history by Rose. Since Fitz's timeline is so severely fucked up, he doesn't have one either. Somewhere down the road, he'll look in the mirror and realize he's around forty-something and the only thing he has to show for it is some grey hairs. He survives the Time War and then goes off to recover from his inevitable PTSD.

Then? He's kind of a River Song-esque character. In my head, they do meet and River refers to Fitz as the Doctor's first wife and the two travel for a while and have sexy awesome adventures. He's a recurring figure in the Doctor's life. They love each other, but don't really need to be together at all times. Fitz does his own thing, the Doctor does his, and they cross paths once in a while ~~and go out on dates and shag~~ but always end up going their separate ways.

For bonus points, since Iris must have been among the Time War's casualties, Fitz has her TARDIS. And it turned into something fitting for him with its chameleon circuit. I don't know what, but something. But he uses it to travel space-time, help planets and the people he meets. And he never gives out his real name. It's always an alias, be it Frank Sinatra or something pretentious but fitting like Fortune.

The reason Eleven kinda has a crush on Rory? Because Fitz Kreiner - Mason from Dead Like Me = Rory Williams. DON'T DENY IT, YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE. Rory looks like Fitz a bit and anyone who knows what happened to Rory must have seen the BIG similarities between the two. Eleven/Rory is an Expy version of Eight/Fitz. ADMIT IT.

SO YEAH. I have a whole mental mythology built up about the continuing adventures of Fitz Kreiner based on this fanwank. And again, River Song + Fitz Kreiner, for all your sexy awesome adventuring needs.

From:

Eleven: Amy, Rory! I was wondering where you got off to! What happened?
Amy: Oh, the locals were going to kill us because they have a weird fear of big noses like Rory's-
Rory: D8
Amy: -but this nice bloke saved us.
Eleven: FITZ! ♥ Hello! It's been ages!
Fitz: Fuck, you're taller now. This is weird...

From:

Fitz: Fuck, you're taller now. This is weird...

Fitz: You're younger than me! You're not supposed to be younger than me!
Eleven: Well, y'know, not really...
Fitz: *lights a cigarette in panic*

From:

Oh man, if Fitz still smokes, the Doctor would be so upset.

Eleven: I thought you quit!
Fitz: I started again.
Eleven: WHY?
Fitz: I'm, like.... impossible to kill. Ciggie smoke isn't going to do the trick, so why not?
Eleven: 8(

From:

Eleven would then proceed to constantly steal his cigarettes. Rory would probably add his own two cents about what second-hand smoke does. Amy would probably complain about the smell.

From:

lullabee-lj.livejournal.com

And Fitz's nose must be at least as long as Rory's... is that the joke? IDK, it amuses me. Go Fitz, standing up to nosephobia!

From:

eviltigerlily.livejournal.com

Then shouldn't Fitz himself not exist?

If it wasn't for the Faction the original Fitz would still be around. They had him kidnapped. Also, if any group can survive becoming a paradox it's them.

From:

"Also, if any group can survive becoming a paradox it's them."
If anything, it would please them, I think.

From:

Sooooo.... then does the original Fitz's timeline just abruptly stop where the Faction would have kidnapped him, since they weren't around to do that? I mean, I don't Fitz 1.0 comes back or anything. That makes even less sense.... IDK IT'S COMPLICATED.

From:

eviltigerlily.livejournal.com

They had him kidnapped and put into the cold to be fished out 600 years later. If they hadn't he would have remained in Geneva.

From:

... But then Fitz 2.0 would still be a paradox while.... I guess Fitz 1.0 is still in Geneva or something? Oh god this makes my head hurt.

From:

Eleven/Rory=Eight/Fitz HELL YEAH! I, uh, wrote a fic about that. (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4028655/28/Hello_My_Name_Is_Fred) Um. Please don't read anything else on that account it is ollld shammmme.

SO HAPPY SOMEONE ELSE SEES IT

From:

WAAAAAAAAAAY LATE but I loved that fic you linked! Oh, it made my heart ache a bit....

From:

some-stars.livejournal.com

While I like reading fic with different explanations, I can't shift my mental canon from believing Fitz died in the Time War. It's just the only thing that feels right to me(again, unless I'm reading a fic, where I will happily subscribe to any idea).

From:

Yeeeeah. Outside my massive fanwank wish-fulfillment, that does seem both the most likely given Fitz's loyalty to the Doctor, his lack of a home to go back to, and what makes the most narrative sense for his journey.

Plus, Nine's Coat. Come on now.

From:

I've written this SO MANY TIMES. In so many different permutations. Including versions that have not and may never see the light of day. And I still don't have a good answer, though I think my favorite (because I'm a huge ol' softie where it comes to Fitz) is the one where he stays with the Doctor through the Time War, survives, and goes on to have adventures on his own. However that happens--the Doctor abandoning him, him buggering off because he cannot stand Nine, the PTSD is so monumental he can't stay, whatever it may be--I basically don't actually want him to die.

Also, yes, Fitz, Rory, Amy, and Eleven all need to run into each other. AWESOME TIMES COMMENCE.

From:

With Fitz, considering he has been through so goddamn much I had to leave the majority of it out on his TVT page for length reasons... it seems cruel to have more happen. As much as think he probably died in the Time War, he really deserves to go out and be an amazing adventurer. After all the shit he's put up with, he's earned being a River Song-type of character.

PTSD makes a lot of sense. I mean... if he goes through the Time War and doesn't die, he's there to see the end of it, and that's got to mess up his head. Also, the Doctor turning into Nine means he's got his own issues to sort to, so going their separate ways would probably benefit both of them.

AND THEN YES THEY CAN MEET UP AGAIN WITH ELEVEN. And Eleven is all "omg fitz ♥" while Amy and Rory are all "???"

From:

As much as think he probably died in the Time War, he really deserves to go out and be an amazing adventurer.

I can see him doing it too--setting up some kind of investigative service on a space station somewhere, constantly wearing a fedora and trying to be cool, and not always managing it. And people don't take him seriously, but then he figures it out and saves the day, and everyone is going, "....?"

And OMG, I DO NOT need to end up writing Fitz/Eleven. ~~And yet, Fitz would totally steal his bowtie.~~

From:

I think he'd linger in some places, righting wrongs and being genre savvy about the strangest situations, then catch a lift to a different timezone and place. ~~Now I am thinking Fitz somehow helped take down the Time Agency Jack was a part of. Because why not?~~

BUT ELEVEN WOULD LOVE SEEING FITZ AGAIN. It's been so long and then he finds out that not only is Fitz alive, he's kind of awesome! He'd have a big ol' crush on Fitz.

From:

I think it's easy to forget that while Fitz is massively devoted to the Doctor, the Doctor is equally devoted to Fitz. The Doctor pulled him through one destruction of Gallifrey (well, more than one if you count all nine XD), so it's reasonable to say he'd involve him in another. Even when he cares about people, the Doctor is willing to put them in danger because he thinks he can save them and because he needs someone to be there. Fitz would be invaluable in a situation like that because he would question the Doctor about his motivations. Without Fitz the Doctor would be more likely to bend his morals to achieve an end - like committing double genocide to end a war. For that reason, I think it's possible that Fitz participated in the Time War and died or left before its end.

The other possibility I see is that before the Time War happened, Fitz grew enough to decide to leave so that the Doctor couldn't blame himself for Fitz's eventual death. We've seen Fitz fall in love with a bunch of girls before, but it's never quite enough to make him leave because the adventure means too much to him. To leave, Fitz would have to decide that it was to the Doctor's benefit. It could be something Fitz might decide and something the Doctor would allow, but maybe something both of them would regret. (...and then Fitz could run into Eleven etc. etc XD)

The third option as I see it is that all of these options exist because...idk...The Time War splintered time or something. Take your pick for the reason.

Edited Date: 2010-10-03 02:22 am (UTC)

From:

Oh, yes, of course it's not a one-way thing. As evidenced by, ah, everything I've ever written (I do suffer from Author Appeal), I think they have a co-dependent relationship. So, yeah, the Doctor might take Donna's advice before even hearing it and have someone to stop him. But if he did, Fitz... wouldn't. At that point, he might not be human enough to keep seeing the small picture instead of the Doctor's big picture. Sort of like Rose was by the end of her run, how she was a bit blind to anything but her and the Doctor's little world. It's all very depressing really...

Oh god, re: Fitz leaving for the Doctor's own good, that kills me. I want fic of that, Fitz deciding to leave and the Doctor's attempts to make him stay in his own underhanded, selfish way. Except I don't want it because it'd break my heart into bitty pieces.

From:

Yeah, I think it's possible that Fitz would just go along with whatever the Doctor thought was best because he trusts him. ...I'm not sure if that would hold true if the Doctor wasn't acting like that Doctor (which could happen if the Doctor was deeply involved in the war).

About Fitz leaving...I've got a fic sitting around half written that's like that, but it makes me sad every time I write more. Maybe I'll get around to finishing it eventually. >>

From:

I'm not sure if that would hold true if the Doctor wasn't acting like that Doctor

Then again, given how Fitz reacted to the Doctor's casual remarks about how he could kill Fitz with one hand in Camera Obscura... maybe not.

If you do, I shall read it, and cry like a baby. FITZ BEING STRONG. THE DOCTOR BEING SAD. OH NOES. D8

From:

"At that point, he might not be human enough to keep seeing the small picture instead of the Doctor's big picture"
Yes yes this.
I was thinking of the same sort of idea earlier this week,
Because, the way I see it, Fitz, if he stayed during the War, would be surrounded by Time Lords and their cultural sense of superiority on a constant basis, and given how easily he slips into roles I think he'd start to adopt some of the same attitude, even if he didn't realize it himself. Even if The Doctor tries to remain as "human" as he can, I can't see a way that Fitz would have remained glued to the Doctor throughout the War. It's not like they could go off and have adventures together, just the two of them in the TARDIS, there'd be an entire planet of Gallifreyans and... eh, Fitz seems remarkably adaptable to living in new situations and fitting in with new cultures.

From:

lelek.livejournal.com

I had to pick Doctor-lite!Fitz as one of mine because I fully intend to one day write a version of that (it's one of those fics that's been in the planning stages for, like, a year, but will totally happen eventually). Do I think it's the most likely? No, but I love the idea of it.

Really, I think the most likely are Fitz dying in the war, or Fitz getting left somewhere for his own good, because I feel like it would take so much to convince him to just up and leave of his own volition. It could happen, but it seems more plausible to me that he'd have to leave somehow or another.

But he really deserves something more awesome. I mean, seriously, he went through so much shit. Probably more than any other companion.

From:

I agree. Fitz deserves some grand, amazing ending. But I doubt he'd get one if the EDAs kept on. It'd be like Donna, who deserved awesomeness only to have Uncle Rusty screw her over for drama's sake. 8(

Hmmm. Maybe the Doctor leaves him somewhere nice, meaning to go back and get him once the War's over, but after he regenerates he's all "woe is me, Fitz deserves better than my PTSD," and doesn't go back. River hears about Fitz from a later Doctor ["Sweetie, who is Fitz and why did you scream his name during sex?"] and goes to pick Fitz up herself.

... Yeah, looking at the TVT, Fitz had it rougher than most.

From:

notusachan.livejournal.com

I'm one of those girls who puts Big Finish canon above... most everything else (oops), and in Mary's Story of Company of Friends, the Doctor who is going through the Time War keeps going on and on about how everybody has left him and he's all alone and has no companions and life sucks and etc etc. Which as far as I'm concerned rules out all of the "Fitz left after the Time War" things.

Personally I like the theories where Fitz died either before or early on during the Time War ~~mostly because I like making Eight suffer MUAHAHAHA~~. I don't want to think about Fitz deciding to leave, because that's always... weird to me. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just that unless something crazybig happened between now and then, I don't know how it could work.

Plus, if Fitz died immediately before Mary's Story, it makes the Doctor's actions in it all the more heartbreaking.

From:

I have successfully murdered the part of my brain that tells me it's most logical that Fitz died in the Time War. I like to imagine that he either got away from Gallifrey just before the end of the War, or that he and Nine tried to make their relationship work and it failed epicly and Fitz left or Nine kicked him out. Either way, I quite love the idea of Fitz traveling around doing the Doctor-lite thing and doing it with Compassion (not like everyone ever didn't see that coming, I know, I'm sorry) and the two of them basically failing at teamwork and failing at actually liking each other, but still sticking together for whatever reason.

I've also just decided to label my favourite 'ship 'Fitz/Doctor/awesome-Time-traveling-female-archaeologist', because I can pretty much throw Eight, Fitz, Eleven, Benny and River into a hat and be content with any permutation there of.

From:

eviltigerlily.livejournal.com

Fitz traveling around doing the Doctor-lite thing and doing it with Compassion

That's how I imagine it the two of them ~~and me~~ traveling together. Also yes on the Doctor/Fitz/Benny~~and me~~ thing.

From:

I really lean toward the idea of Fitz using Iris's TARDIS after her death. I love Compassion, but I don't think Fitz and her could get along without the Doctor there. But I have big thoughts about the 8/F/C team and how, as interesting as I find them, I don't think they work well at all. But I think you and I already discussed that in email. 83

From:

lullabee-lj.livejournal.com

I have a rather ridiculous theory that Fitz does die in the Time War, but he's preserved in the Obverse from The Blue Angel. The Obverse Doctor's madness comes from having to, well, archive everyone's normalverse biodata thingies in his brain. So they have a lovely life in the Obverse together and get married and whatever, until the Doctor dies a happy old alter kocker, in Fitz's arms and with Anji holding his hand. And he sort-of-regenerates upon his death, and the energy of regenerating causes him to transfer the normalverse biodata to Fitz and Anji, and the house to become a TARDIS. So they're all young again, and their first trip in the TARDIS takes them to the normalverse, where they get to have adventures and whatever, made slightly strange by the fact that they have the combined memories from the normalverse and the Obverse. So Fitz and the Doctor fight like an old married couple, because, really, they are.

So they get to meet Donna and River and Eleven and Rory and everyone and... IDK.

From:

LEAVE MY FIC OUT OF THIS, LULLABEE. >8(

ETA: Though, hm, that makes sense with what the NuWho shows about regeneration. If the ObDoctor was holding all that biodata and he regenerated, it'd pretty much explode out from him. Interesting...

Edited Date: 2010-10-03 09:06 pm (UTC)

From:

FAVORITE EVER. ♥

From:

Ha, awesome idea!

From:

Silly people, Iris can't die! She's too genre-savvy. But maybe she totally saves Fitz and then gets the hell out of the Time War, and Eight just thinks he's dead, and then Fitz and Iris have lovely fourth-wall-breaking adventures before Iris dumps him for Lady Christina, but first she drops Fitz off with Eleven and Rory gets a weird crush on him and Fitz tries to chat up Amy and then they all travel together happy ever after. YES TOTALLY.

In a sadder universe, I quite like the idea of Fitz never existing in an awful painful sort of way. I felt similarly about Rory. Because then he only exists in the Doctor's mind, and what beautiful angst.

My most common headcanon: Eight drops him off on Earth and then goes to sacrifice himself destroying Gallifrey. He doesn't come back. Fitz assumes he's either dead or has abandoned him and mopes around being depressed. Possibly he meets Captain Jack at some point and they have missing Doctor angst together.

Ye gods, poor Fitz.

From:

I know I might be alone in this, but I think putting Fitz back on Earth is actually worse than killing him off. It just... limits him. He needs to travel the universe doing awesome things or else what was all that time spent with the Doctor for? I mean, he has to have traveled with Eight longer than most companions, if I'm figuring it right.

IDK, the idea of Fitz on Earth makes me really upset for some reason.

From:

Yes, exactly. I can see him becoming very self-destructive, or just aimless. Although I read a very good fic once where he moved in with Anji and she straightened him out :)

I can see him waiting for the Doctor for years and years though, and that's so, so sad...

From:

Fitz is the longest serving companion if you go just by sheer story number. What we tend to see with long serving companions is that slow shift towards becoming more like the Doctor ideologically...which is definitely where the possibility of Fitz being uncomfortable on Earth comes in. He might feel trapped without the adventure, but I also think he could be comfortable on any planet if he found someplace that he could call home.

Here's a bit from The Deadstone Memorial (definitely one of my favorite EDAs):

‘I’ve been thinking,’ began Fitz after a short while, ‘about what we talked about in the garden.’ The Doctor said nothing, so he carried on: ‘Maybe you’re right. I don’t feel like I belong on Earth any more. The TARDIS is my home now. But I’m cool with that.’
The Doctor said, ‘Good.’

If Fitz decided to leave, he might feel at a loose end initially, but eventually I think he would find a place of his own. And failing that, he would definitely remain changed - he couldn't be the man that the Doctor first found in 1963 again.

From:

"But maybe she totally saves Fitz and then gets the hell out of the
Time War, and Eight just thinks he's dead, and then Fitz and Iris have lovely fourth-wall-breaking adventures before Iris dumps him for Lady Christina,
but first she drops Fitz off with Eleven and Rory gets a weird crush on him and Fitz tries to chat up Amy and then they all travel together happy ever
after."

fff yes best theory EVER

From:

It's probably bad that my first opinion of Christina was "such an Iris companion." They would get along like a house on fire which is good because I am convinced the flying bus was actually Iris' TARDIS and she was just passed out drunk in the back somewhere.

//not relevant to Fitz I know

From:

Not relevant to Fitz, but entirely true nonetheless. I mean, how can one see a flying bus and not immediately think Iris? And they would get on fabulously! Someone must have written fic of this already. I can not imagine an internet where this has not happened.

...I also feel that if Fitz and Iris were to travel together for any extended period of time Fitz' self-confidence balloon would have shrivvled up into nothingness.
Obvious inappropriate joke is obvious and inappropriate :D

From:

stalkedbychibis.livejournal.com

_{Sweet goddess I have too much time to think about this stuff... [/needs a job]}

I like a lot of the options to various degrees. Mostly the "died in Time War" option, not so much because I want Fitz to have died, but it's better than having to think of him being dropped off somewhere. ((And not just because Nine's jacket is so Fitz's no matter what anyone says.))

There's also my little fan-ish idea that time somehow....fragmented during/after the Time War, and so Fitz and Eight are still out there in an AU even though Eight regenerated in the main 'verse.

The dark romantic in me likes the "he no longer exists" option, and the part that says Eleven/Rory so very very = Eight/Fitz agrees.

From:

jcrycolr3wradc.livejournal.com

Sorry. I'm sure this thread is dead, but I wanted to add my own two cents. I think that Fritz and Eight would have gone through most of the time war togeather. However before the Doctor goes and makes his BigHeroic sacricfe I think he probaly would have dropped Fritz back on earth being all like "No, Fritz go get your last pack of ciggerts before we die." and Fritz goes to the Tesco corner shop and when he comes back the TARDIS is gone. and Fritz mopes about for a bit, but during alien invasions and stuff he's all gene savvy and heroic. and play the guiter to cheer people up during the Year that Never was.
yeah...*runs off*

From: